Sunday, December 28, 2008


Tuesday, Dec 30 at 8:30 AM I have my exam. That afternoon I can start to read again! It's been so long since I've read an interesting book! I think I am going to start with the Jews of Sing Sing by Ron Arons just because I love the title!

Wednesday, August 20, 2008

Serenity Now!

OK, here's the problem....there is just too much stuff!!! I have been trying to go through the Denver Mint robbery files; organizing the Cherryvale Bank Robbery info, take care of my family, and hold down a full time job. Oh yeah, I also have to study for another exam. So anyone waiting for me to send them a copy of something I will get to it but think Fall with the turning of the leaves and cooler temps.

Friday, August 01, 2008


Michael Lesy's book Murder City is a great read if your looking for something light but still dealing with historical crime for vacation reading. He doesn't tell you about every murder in Chicago during the 20's. He avoids the St. Valentine's Day Massacre and the Leopold & Loeb's murder of Bobby Franks because both have had extensive coverage.
The book shines in the chapters discussing the cases that are forgotten today. Cases like the first one of Carl Wanderer a war veteran who murdered his wife and an out of luck stranger that he had hired to look like a mugger. When I showed an acquaintance wanderer's picture he said "he doesn't look like a murderer". I think that's the point of Lesy's book for the most part he concentrates on the cases concerning people who are ordinary people who carry through a bad idea. Some of the stories are spooky because the details are the things I've heard about as anecdotes but never thought it happened, but it did! The transvestite Fred Thompson who married both a man and a woman and is falsely accused of a murder. He asked for a "white man's chance", but was actually better off being thought of as a white woman. Charles Church who murdered two men and then butchered them because he wanted a new Packard. He led the police on a merry dance telling them what they wanted to hear with as many different versions of what happened as there were investigators. When he's brought to trial he withdraws so far into himself that he becomes the walking dead. The original cases that spawned the musical Chicago and the the fact that battered women syndrome was a very effective defense in Chicago during the 20's. This book is a great read. My only complaint are the chapters spent on Chicago's beer wars there's nothing new here and a couple of facts are a little off. I'd have rather the space been given to some other long forgotten murder case.

Saturday, July 12, 2008

FBI Makes a Funny!

OK, I enjoy a good joke just as much as the next guy; so I have to give the FBI their props--they got me good (in a good way). I picked up my box from the post office. I didn't even rush to get home because while the Denver Mint robbery interests me I'm not obsessed with it. I run some errands, chat on the phone, clean the kitchen, etc...then I open the box. What do I find, but 500 pages on the Cherryvale Bank robbery!!!! The FBI told me they had found 20 pages related to Vivian! I am now doing a mental dance of joy!
The pages are interesting too. Some of it can't be read of course (microfilm images deteriorate over time) but nothing is red lined. I'm not even 100 pages through yet but the information is tantalizing (George M. Chase was probably still living during Cherryvale & Picher). I know it won't answer all of my questions BUT IT'S GREAT!

Friday, July 11, 2008

Wooohooo! I got my little orange slip in the mail saying I have a parcel from the FBI that I need to pick up! Yeahhh! I think it's those files on the Denver Mint Robbery, but I'm also hoping they combined it with the 20 pages on Vivian Chase that they say they found. It's so completely cool. I'm giddy with anticipation. It takes so little to make me happy!

Monday, June 30, 2008


I thought I would try something in a later time period than I read normally. The mid 1940's murder of the Black Dahlia has always fascinated me. I think the fascination is a combination of horror and amazement. Horror at the level of violence inflicted on Elizabeth Short and amazement that such a crime was never solved.

So, I got hold of a copy of John Gilmore's Severed the True Story of the Black Dahlia. Gilmore's good. The book is well paced. Gilmore provides a lengthy depiction of Short's personal life and the marginal existence she led prior to her murder. Severed is incredibly graphic. So much so that I was way over my head! Give me simple straight forward thieves any day of the week. I'm not sure if I agree with Gilmore about who the murderer is. If you Google the Black Dahlia you'll find multiple sights dealing with the crime. There are also several different men named as the murderer including two children who have named their fathers and written books about why they believe their Dad it. {Boy you'd really have to hate your Father to think him capable of doing these things} One woman named Orson Welles as the murder. It's sad that the case is going to remain unsolved. So many theories with no satisfactory answers.

I haven't got anything new to read. So I may go back to reading some old favorites. I'm not supposed to buy any new books until I finish reading all of the mysteries I've accumulated and let sit. But we'll see....

Sunday, June 22, 2008

Lee and Linn Flournoy

This is Linn Flournoy, Lee Flournoy's twin brother, I couldn't locate a decent picture of Lee Flournoy, so since the two were identical a photo of Linn will have to do. Lee Flournoy, if you are not aware, was Charlie Mays partner for the Cherryvale Bank robbery. So far from what I've read Lee may have been the leader of the gang, but then again.... I've received articles on Lee including a more detailed version of what actually happened in Picher, OK in 1926 when Charlie and Lee were killed in a gunfight with lawman. It always seemed strange to me that they would be killed in the wee hours of the morning carousing as opposed to breaking and entering someplace.
If the picture of Linn, above looks a little hapless, it's because he owes his trip to the MO penitentiary to his twin, Lee. Linn, along with Lee's wife Dorothy, attempted to break Lee out of jail while Lee was waiting for trial on murder charges. Actually, they might have gotten away from it if they hadn't decided to make Dorothy their third man. It seems she became rattled waiting for them (she was the driver). She drove away leaving them to make do. They were caught. Lee and Linn were sent to the MO Pen. Now that photo exists now because Linn was arrested for theft (of groceries) in 1926. Only 3 months after the deaths of his parents and Lee. He admits that the crime was due to stupidity. Since the crime occur ed in KS where he did his time a file, and pictures, still exist.
I think I'm going to try to write something on the Cherryvale bank robbery. It wasn't the crime of the century but the players and circumstances of the event are worth telling. BTW, I got a call from the FBI about some files for the Denver Mint Robbery of 1922. It will be interesting to hear what they've found.

Tuesday, May 13, 2008

No Joke!

Evidently, the FBI has located 20 pages on Microfilm about Vivian Chase! Woe, Friday I got two letters telling me no there's nothing. So of course I'm excited even if it's only 20 pages. The files have to be processed which means they will go through a classification review. The information is over 70 years old if I get one blacked out name I'm appealing. I've been through too much to get very little to put up with that BS.

I also have to decide whether I will appeal one of the 'no information' letters I received. Essentially, the letter said that it was FBI HQ policy to limit searches to HQ folders and indices in order to save time. The FBI has essentially refused to search through it's field office information. Now if the letter had said 'there's no information relevant in the field office files' I would give up with out any argument. But of course in order to tell me that they would have to know what the FO records contain. I also need to ask them to tell me if the records have been destroyed. As anal as the FBI is with information I'm sure that they could tell me definitively if those records are lost. What records you ask? Well, Vivian's autopsy file is referenced in the Luer kidnapping file and there are also Kansas City FO reports referenced that would provide information on the FBI's search for her after the Luer kidnapping and a report that might illuminate the Cherryvale Bank Robbery.

I realize that after 80 years (Cherryvale) there's a good chance something happened to the records but just tell me they are no more and I'll be gone.

Saturday, May 10, 2008


Well, I've hit the wall. Friday I received a letter from the FBI basically saying they can't find any other records for Vivian Chase other than the file numbers I was previously given. Those files turned out to be perfectly worthless to me containing no information. I guess it's possible that the information was misfiled and may turn up but it's equally possible that it was stolen or destroyed. I say stolen because it wouldn't be the first time that someone walked out with a file. Of course it would have happened before there was so much security in place to prevent that.

So where do I go from here? I guess I just keep trying to close the gaps on the information I have. You know Vivian was not a major criminal (although as a female she was major) but her associates were incredibly interesting. For now I'm concentrating on Lee Flournoy and Charlie Mays. They are an interesting pair particularly Flournoy. Something tells me if I keep researching their robbery and bootlegging gangs I might just find out what happened to George M. Chase.

Truthfully, I admit to myself, I may never have all the answers to the questions I have about Vivian's life. Vivian was notoriously closed mouthed about herself. Somehow I think the problems with finding information about her have a lot to do with her karma! But you never know...maybe I'll find an answer here and there despite the cosmic interference!

Friday, April 04, 2008

The Devil's Gentleman

The Devil’s Gentleman by Harold Schechter…where to begin? First like most people I read the book because I enjoyed Schechter’s earlier work. He’s written several historical books on famous serial killers. Schechter is that rare historian who has a knack for story telling. His books read more like novels as opposed to dry historical text. He creates atmosphere and fleshes out characters better than many popular novelists and his books aren’t fiction but well researched history.

Enough of the praise! While I enjoyed the book the subject matter is a departure from Schechter’s earlier works. Previously, he wrote about serial killers including H.H. Holmes; Ed Gein; and little Jesse Pomeroy. Lurid tales in the best sense of the word! This time around he covers the sensational murders involving Roland Molineaux and the poisoning deaths of a Mrs. Adams during the turn of the century in NYC.

It’s odd…Schechter uses terms like libertine to describe Molineaux, but there isn’t a lot of detail to back up that description. He had an affair at 15 with a married woman. In his 20’s he seduced a 13 yr old child. He was rumored to have tried Opium while slumming in a hop house. Even so, I just did not get the sense of deviance that Schechter accuses Molineaux. But maybe that is Schechter’s device. Molineaux is convicted and sentenced to death largely because of circumstantial evidence and evidence that he was a degenerate. In the world of Victorian America degenerate evidently was used as a euphemism for homosexual. Molineaux, although no evidence was ever introduced that he was homosexual, was not manly enough. A century and change before the term “metro-sexual” was employed, Molineaux grooming, bearing, and choice of stationary condemned him in the eyes of the prosecution. Was he guilty? Most likely. Would they have convicted him on the same evidence today? No. But they did have sufficient evidence to charge Molineaux for the murder of his romantic rival, but never pursued the case. Why? Read the book and tell me what you think

Thursday, March 13, 2008

Here we go again...

These mugs are on the inside cover of Run the Cat Roads by L.L. Edge. A book I will not be able to read because I'm too busy studying and procrastinating. (Not that anything that I'm studying is actually sticking too my brain)

I got an email from the FBI again telling me that the files I want are at the NARA and the file numbers I should request. The file numbers are the same file numbers that I requested on my last visit. If you recall I was woefully disappointed.

So, I guess it's back to square one with NARA. I forward the email, explain the tragedy of my last visit, and ask for confirmation that NARA destroyed the files after they were sent over from the FBI. If NARA did destroy the files then they did so with out the FBI's knowledge because my email says that the documents have not been destroyed. Maybe they still exist but they are just lost. So let's all say a collective prayer that what is hidden in the dark comes to light. I know I will. My one consoling thought is that if this proves to be my worst problem this year then I am truly blessed!

Tuesday, March 04, 2008

John Langan

So this is John Langan; he was pointed out as Vivian's accomplice when she when on her KC, Mo crime spree. They held up a series of small stores (shoe stores, drug stores, etc) for some small change. Langan was also involved with Clarence Sparger and a couple of robberies that put him on the FBI radar. I had requested the FBI to search to see if they still maintained the files on him. No such luck. Evidently "records responsive to my request were destroyed on 2/1/1990; 3/1/1993; and 3/1/1998. Oh well...all is lost.

The FBI may still have Vivian Chase's file...they have searched through records still in their possession and have found files that were microfilmed that may be relevant. Just one problem the FBI's microfilm readers are broken! A very nice Public Information Officer explained that they would not know if these were the files that I sought for at least another month by which time the microfilm machines would be fixed. I wish I had become interested in Vivian earlier in the 80's or 90's.

Thursday, February 28, 2008

The Pickpocket's Tale

Let me gush I really really liked this book! Once in a while I read a book that makes me say "WOW"; sometimes a historian/writer is able to combine excellent research, seamless writing, cohesive arguments and an interesting subject. (You know something that makes me think with out it hurting!) A Pickpocket's Tale: The Underworld of Nineteenth Century New York is Timothy J. Gilfoyle's biography of George Appo, a 19th century thief. I've always been interested in 19th century criminal history it's a period that appeals to my love of lurid material. This book is a stunner because it satisfies my curiosity about NYC Police Court, life in the Tombs, and the abject wickedness of Sing Sing during this period. The author uses Appo's short autobiography and expands upon it by giving details about NYC courts and jails, the criminal lifestyle, prison life and reform concerns.

George Appo, was the son of a Chinese immigrant Quimbo Appo and an Irish mother. During a dismal childhood (his father is convicted of murdering a woman and sent to Sing Sing when Appo is 3; after which his mother abandoned him) Appo learns to steal. He becomes one of the most accomplished pickpockets in NYC. The book takes you through his early incarcerations. Appo was not only sentenced to traditional detention centers but spent time on one of the experimental detention sea vessels. The Author describes them all. Gilfoyle provides a considerable amount of detail about Appo's world without hindering his narrative. He doesn't lose his focus so he doesn't lose his voice. I never had to hurry through a chapter because it was boring me to distraction.

The author argues that the 19th century crime world is the embryo for organized crime in America. You have criminals who are capable of organizing on a national scale for theft while at the same time gambling, prostitution, and other vices are already establishing teritories and protection networks. While I don't agree with Gilfoyle's every argument I did enjoy reading them. BTW if any one would like to Read first hand news accounts about Appo and other 19th century crimes the Brooklyn Eagle has an archive for newspapers from 1840 to 1902 available online.

Saturday, February 23, 2008

Sin in The Second City

I had a snow day (more precisely an icy road day) so I used it to read a book that's off my usual path of thieves. I'm glad that I picked Karen Abbot's Sin in the Second City. It's a fun, fast paced read. I was surprised it was so enjoyable. Probably because the stars of the books are the self named Everleigh sisters Mina and Ada. Prostitution has never been an easy job for it's workers particularly in earlier periods when abuse and other degradation were thought their due as "fallen women". According to Abbot, the Everleigh sisters not only ran the most exclusive brothel in Chicago's Levee district. The two were enlightened pimps who ran a humane brothel. Decent pay for the workers, decent working conditions (hey they even had medical) no brothel enforcer to keep the women in line. And all women had to prove they were over the age of 18. Hey this at a time when it was not unusual to find young teen 'working girls' and not unusual for them to be sold into the position.

Abbot takes readers through the Levee district in Chicago. Readers see the outrageous characters, political, criminal, and religious. She gets as far as anyone can in explaining the Everleigh sisters past. The book is salacious, informative, and well written. I couldn't put it down yesterday and I'm glad I picked it up.

Monday, February 18, 2008

The Bobbed Haired Bandit

Stephen Duncombe and Andrew Mattson have written a wonderful book about the 1920's exploits of Celia and Ed Cooney in Brooklyn, NY.

The Bobbed Haired Bandit as Celia was dubbed with her "cake eater" accomplice held up 10 mom and pop establishments in Brooklyn during 1924. They never made $300 during a robbery and once netted as little as $17, but they were hunted by the NYPD as if they were netting millions each robbery. It seems that it was bad for publicity that a little girl could outwit the police.

The book is as much about how the "PRESS" can create a celebrity by manipulating public sentiment. Besides being great social history it's also a fast paced read that is hard to put down.

Tuesday, February 12, 2008

Harvey Bailey

J. Evetts Haley's book Robbing Banks Was My Business...the Story of J. Harvey Bailey was difficult to get hold of. Not only has it been out of print for some time, but it is also now a collectors item. Signed copies in good condition are going for over $1,000. Only 7 libraries in the country have a copy for circulation including the El Paso, TX Library system. They sent me a copy via inter-library loan thereby saving me the $75 bucks a "friend" was going to charge me for their dog chewed mildewy copy. Sometimes I do get lucky.

Since I only wanted to read the book and I am not a collector I am so glad I did not have to pay anything for the book! Because it's not that great. Honestly J. Evetts Haley's narrative prevents the reader from actually enjoying the book. Harvey Bailey deserves another biography. If Haley had just let the tape recorder go and transcribed Bailey's recollections the book probably would have been more enjoyable. I found myself skipping past much of the narrative to get to the quotes.

Harvey Bailey was one of the best; he was a part of one of the greatest heists during the 20's the Denver Mint Robbery. Bailey says that he and his gang had no intention of knocking over the mint courier truck when they were in Denver. They were casing another job when he was called away by a family emergency. The gang left to their own devices thought the Mint's courier truck would be a much better score. I'm not sure if I completely believe that since one of the guards was killed during the robbery he may have been deflecting unwanted legal action. But then again I wasn't there so maybe he wasn't either. He also worked with many of the A list in robbers during his time only to snagged for something he didn't do. Oh well...

Saturday, February 09, 2008

Lyman Ford

This is Lyman Ford, one of the conspirators of the Cherryvale Bank robbery, along with Charley Mays and George C. Robertson

Like Robertson, Lyman surprises me because of his age but for the opposite reason. He gives his age at the time as 58 which is considerably older than I would have thought. Ford's the one who gave up the details on the Cherryvale robbery. He was caught soon after the robbery in New Mexico and brought back to Kansas. The robbery was an "inside" job. Vice President Robertson, cashier Clarence Howard, and H.H. Zittle of Springfield, MO planned the job to cover certain irregularities with the banks deposits. They brought in Lee Flournoy and Charley Mays to go through the motions of the staged heist. Ford was brought in later. Only problem was that Mays and Flournoy decided to actually rob the bank (they showed up at an earlier time). Never wise to trust thieves. In return for his cooperative nature Lyman received only 2 years for the robbery. I'm having a little bit of a trouble finding out what happened to Lyman after his release from Leavenworth. I have a vague memory that someone told me that they had read that Lyman Ford committed suicide in the OK pen, but I'm not able to verify that because getting information from some State prisons is not easy. Did you know that Missouri did not keep inmate files until the 1930's? Ford really did not want to go back to OK; he contested his extradition. I don't think he felt welcome the McAlester warden's letter to Leavenworth Warden Newell called Lyman Ford a "bad egg".

Monday, January 28, 2008

Satan's Circus

You know I was really prepared to love Mike Dash’s Satan’s Circus when I brought it at Borders (paid full price too). Which is why I feel perfectly fine trashing it now! No honestly, it’s an OK book.

Satan's Circus was one of the more salacious terms for New York City's turn of the century tenderloin district. I was hoping for a spicier telling of Charles Becker's sad story. The inside flap promises that Satan's Circus brings to life an almost forgotten Gotham. However, this book like all good history books is well researched but not spicy. Dash does an excellent job of dramatizing the role that the press plays in Becker's downfall. I think this book would serve as a good primer for anyone not acquainted with the Becker case. The NYC policeman was executed because his death was convenient for a lot of people. Becker wasn't a saint, not by a long shot but he didn't deserve to be executed even by the lax standards of his day.

Friday, January 25, 2008

Patience is a virtue...Virtue is over-rated

I spoke with 3 representatives of the FBI records only to be told that since I was not an FBI employee I can only recieve information about files in FBI custody through FOIA. I learned that it is actually NARA that decides what files the FBI sends to them are destroyed and which kept. So if Vivian Chase's file was definately destroyed then it's the archives fault. They just can't tell me whether the file was sent to NARA , but I do have a FOIA request outstanding so I'll find out that way. So there is hope.

The photo at left is Clarence Sparger's Alcatraz mug. Sparger is according to one FBI informant responsible for Vivian's death. He shot her because she said something that Sparger did not like. Vivian seems to have had a thing for hot heads. Sparger, Mayes, McDowell and her husband all seemed to enjoy acting before thinking things through. Speaking of her husband, George Chase, I'm having no luck with Missouri Archives in getting his prison record. Archives employees consulted a penitentiary admissions index and that index did not include his name. However, as I pointed out to them George Chase is clearly listed as an inmate in the 1920 Census. I don't think the Census taker made the record up. I gave Missouri a copy of the Census and I'm waiting to hear if they will look any further. I'm having the worst trouble with old lists.

Sunday, January 20, 2008

Alvin Karpis Story

After the disappointing experience at the archives I wanted to read something fun. The Alvin Karpis Story is so much fun to read because it's quick paced and Karpis doesn't have any remorse about anything. If your not familiar with the Barker-Karpis (or Karpis-Barker gang as Alvin Karpis puts it)then you won't be bogged down with keeping track of the bodies.

It's funny that in the Video interview
,Karpis says that he thinks he killed around 13-14 men. You won't find out who Karpis murdered from this book he lays the blame for every death on someone else, usually Freddy Barker. It makes sense, because there's no statue of limitations on murder like there is for bank robbery. No one ever accused Karpis of being stupid. But as I read the book, I wonder which of the murders Karpis actually did himself. Karpis' other book about life on Alcatraz is a great read too maybe I'll read it tonight. The only thing I wish were different about this book is that I wish it had an index of people and heists.

Friday, January 18, 2008

Too Sad....

Well my worst fears came true...when I got the box that should have contained the Vivian Chase file...nothing. The HQ FBI index lists Vivian's file number as 91-866-20 which according to the NARA file listing should be located at RG 65 230/A/15/02 box 60; well box 60 contains information about the Bank of Cairo robbery in 1937. The thieves netted all of $446.50. So was Vivian's file destroyed? Why would they keep a file on such a small time job, but destroy the file on one of a stand up criminal like Vivian? I'm truly blue now because my research is at an impasse. I was hoping that the FBI file might contain information such as the interviews with Dorothy Flournoy and Lyman Ford's wife. Interviews that were referenced in the Luer kidnapping file; I was also hoping that it might contain a more thorough explanation about how she made bail for the Cherryvale robbery and maybe the autopsy photos. Yes, I'm morbid...

Well, I got the information for contacting the person at the FBI who is responsible for transferring eligible files to the archives. I'm just hoping that maybe the old FBI indices aren't reliable for finding the file transferred to the archives. I know it's stupid but I'm hoping that the file wasn't destroyed and somehow some benevolent spirit will lead me to it. Or maybe they can give me a list of the files that were destroyed. You know it would save me a lot of time, trouble, and money.

I need chocolate but I'm out; so I'm gonna have a couple of shots of vodka. Medicinal you know...

Thursday, January 17, 2008


It's snowing! UGH! Tomorrow is my day at the archives! Hopefully this won't amount to anything...and all will be well. I'm not worried. Snow wimps like me just have to trust God.

There is one slight glitch...all FBI files requested from the Archives now have to go through a review to make sure that the files are appropriate for copying. Because the class 91 records contain files up to 1960's they need to make sure that no one is copying prohibited records. I wish they would just take my word for "she died in 1935". It's just going to mean a longer wait for the file. I'm not patient!

Sunday, January 13, 2008

Verne Sankey

I picked up Timothy W. Bjorkman's book Verne Sankey America's First Public Enemy because of the title. America's first Public Enemy? Since the cover photo is of a man in modern dress, I was intrigued. I thought I pretty much knew all of the major criminals from the 30's. I was wrong and the book is great reading.

For the unaware, Verne Sankey committed 2 kidnappings in the 1930's. One in Minnesota, Haskell Bohn, and another in Denver, Charles Boettcher. It' s the Boettcher kidnapping that gave Sankey his notoriety.

Bjorkman manages to do what many historian's have difficulty accomplishing. He seamlessly weaves economic realities into his discussion of Sankey. He also manages to use the economic realities of the 20's and most importantly the 30's without using those realities as an explanation of Sankey's crimes.

Honestly, the image of Sankey is one of a personable, but domineering individual (to those he could dominate) who thought he was smarter than the police. He was a caring family man who supplemented his income first by running a lucrative bootlegging operation in the 20's. He loved excitement and gambling. Crime suited him. He was smart. He chose his home in Denver and built a ranch in S. Dakota so that both included features that would allow him to know if Police were coming. He chose men who were not criminals as his associates. But the men he chose were down on their luck and easily led. Sankey's tale isn't a typical gangland drama with loads of gun play, but Bjorkman relates the history of the players in thoughtful detail. Sankey comes across as a true rogue. He threw away a secure respectable lifestyle for one that was thrilling, but he didn't throw away his life. He went to school functions for his kids, assisted his neighbors, and if it wasn't for the discovery of his kidnappings he could have been elected mayor or sheriff in many a small town.

Friday, January 11, 2008

Nothing Much....

I haven't been doing much lately...went to the archives New Year's eve. I found Vivian Chase's case file record information. Finally! Believe it or not the FBI indexes (indices for snobs) are still on 3x5 index cards! Yes, for class 91 (bank robbery) there are 64 card file boxes. Each index contains a name (and if your lucky) cross references. I'd be happy to input that stuff on an excel spread sheet; but according to one NARA employee the FBI is going to give NARA a copy of their electronic index SOMEDAY soon. I wonder how many of those cards actually made it to the electronic index! Call me paranoid if you like. I've been called worse and a few people actually meant it!

So my boss has been so kind as to let me take Jan. 18 off so off to the archives I'll be in my comfortable shoes so I can make loads of copies.

Needless to say if Vivian's file only has congratulatory letters to Hoover I will be heartbroken.